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Post by bill1958 on Jun 7, 2011 16:44:10 GMT -5
now above figures was my lines now lets do the other math 24 traps times 97 days thats 2338 chances but just the same is a little over two fox aday which again can be only done with hard work
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Post by timberhippie on Jun 7, 2011 17:03:07 GMT -5
I don't doubt a person running 150 traps can do it if the populations there. What I do doubt is that anyone could do it with two dozen traps as you stated earlier.
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Post by Fluff747 on Jun 7, 2011 17:05:47 GMT -5
you cant catch them if they aint there ,lure will only draw so far IMO if there was such a thing as a secret lure , there needs to be one the you open and out pours your critter your after , kinda like dancing with a fat girl its fun but not as fun ! I know that I hear that statment alot,,, Hey fluff whats your secret lure , uh didnt know they made one LOL
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 8, 2011 2:56:12 GMT -5
fluff hit it right there no matter how hard you work you better figure out the population and when to pull because you can't catch whats not there.when it comes to the fur we have it but when it comes to buyers we are out of luck and even then most is graded flat and cheap prices.even our cats are 25.00.the last few years the only thing working for us is the meat market and otter
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Post by backwoodsman on Jun 8, 2011 12:47:13 GMT -5
High percetage per trap trapping or high ratio trapping calls for constantly moving traps to new locations. Just like running a high volume rat line if anyones ever done that. Barring something unforeseen your first few days are the best then the catch falls. During the fur boom we ran alot of traps but not near as many as some and our catch rates were higher then their's. For a few years we even tutored other trappers and were paid well for it. The thing most couldnt comprehend is if you want to catch the cream and move on you have to scout, scout and scout some more. You have to know where the critters are in your territory, how many there are and where they feed from season to season. On the subject of lures theres 2 commercial coon/water lures I feel naked not having in my packsack and 3, possibly 4 dryland/canine lures that I feel I have to have.
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Post by timberhippie on Jun 9, 2011 7:00:12 GMT -5
So backwoodsman are you saying you believe there are people catching 300 gray fox with 24 traps in around a 90 day season? Now remember we are talking gray fox not reds or raccoons. Grays are a whole other ball game and if you have ran for them and believe those sort of achievements are possible I will respect that opinion but if you are basing it being possible on muskrat trapping then I will have to say it is not in the same ballpark. Muskrats are a whole other game as are raccoons.
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Post by polecat on Jun 9, 2011 11:04:23 GMT -5
In the past I have taken both sides of this discussion just for learning's sake. A couple of my observations or opinions.
Did you ever have tracks in snow show that when an animal caught the scent cone do an about face and run? I, and several others I have talked to have, more than one time and not just one lure. Why?
If no lure was better or worse, why spend money on lure, just use carp chunks? After all, if on location any will work yes? Not me haha.
Some work good for me some years but not others. Like yellow rooster tails hammered the trout then but not now. Why? Perhaps matching the hatch?
Why do I do better with a couple certain lures than others? I know why. CONFEDENCE. If I connect big with x, I'm going to use x a lot more, therefore I'm going to catch more with x. That's not saying that y is inferior.
Told a friend that I many times combine leftover lures rather than have many with a dribble left. That drives him crazy, therefore I will do that more lol.
Been asked so many times my favorite LORE that I came up with my true answer,,,,,,,TRACKS.
Looks like a great forum here, glad I joined. At last some trap talk, how refreshing. Had lots of trouble getting on and am registered twice under different names than the other forums. I did not purposely do that. If it needs fixed, PM me.
Thanks, Wright, Pennsylvania.
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Post by ewoktrapper on Jun 9, 2011 13:03:38 GMT -5
Wright Welcome....Brown trout rooster tail with a gold blade always works LMAO......
I'm still a firm believer Location is still key.How did you see the critters tracks in the snow?You where on location....
This subject can be hashed until the cows come home.This thread was started to get the Newbies the why and why not's.
Also it was stated in this post or another,about lure usage.Most trappers either Don't understand it,or don't realize the importance of that.Maybe they just don't care...Some don't understand even the subject of over doseing a set...
Welcome to the site......I hope to see you posting here as much as trapperman.... Take care ....Frank
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Post by sshoesmd on Jun 9, 2011 17:16:06 GMT -5
Lure, Changing to different lure for the wise ones----a dog can get educated---some times getting away from the castor and going to something like a mink gland lure will make the connection. Location is important, you can"t get them if there not there. You may have enough coon sign to sink a battle ship but than you only get one---did the rest of the family clear out---maybe gang setting in this case would have payed off big.----sometimes coyote will circle the one that is caught and in this case one or two more sets extra will connect or remake with a different lure. The animal that was caught will leave enough scent to be investicated.
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Post by bigwhiskey on Jun 9, 2011 18:16:13 GMT -5
I am just a rookie K9 trapper and a mediocre coon trapper, so I don't have a ton of experience. I do believe location, location, location, and hard work is key. I caught most my coyotes this year when most guys were done, I was chopping frost and shoveling off snow the majority of the time. However I do believe lure type/brand is a sizable factor. This was told to me "There are no silver bullets, but some bullets are a lot better than others.", I believe this is very accurate. For instance I was at two seperate locations this year and coyotes were not paying my sets much attention and I was using well known lures, but I switched lures and BAM it was like a switch turned, I started catching yotes. In my opinion the different lure made the difference. Just the opinion of a rookie k9 trapper.
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 9, 2011 19:18:37 GMT -5
i have held off for a while because i don't want to be a know it all. you can educate a animal and burn out a lure quick and quicker in some areas more then others but just the same you can.as a example take coon i have been told 1000's of time it's a waste of time to pre bait coon but i feel it's not.yes it's extra work but well worth the effort put in.
you can also make locations as well with a little extra work but one thing you can't make is animals in one general location BUT with bait stations over time will pull others in as well as no one knows were the animals boundery is .
how many of you work your gardens every year or a ranch or farm.you have to keep them worked or you don't get your hard works earnings.your trap line is the same way.you do no work you produce very little.you work hard your lines pay off.this is not about numbers,lures or locations ,it's about making your lines work for you.
for those that can release animals from adc work do you release on your fur lines.i for one can not relocate any animal but in your areas that can ,should.
how many of you start summer urine post during the summer?
first off what happens when you make bait stations right and keeps checking them out regular,they keep coming back.the same with a rub post they use it over and over all the time.so why not a urine post.yes this takes time but if you only do these things one day a week you will see a improvement on your line .why? because you put extra work on your lines.
my point is the more you put in to some thing the more you get back in return,you set down and do nothing then exspect nothing.
this is nothing but trap line managent.
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Post by timberhippie on Jun 9, 2011 19:24:23 GMT -5
Huh???
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 9, 2011 19:39:38 GMT -5
whats this got to do with magic in a bottle every thing because the only magic you see is the magic from your hard work not in a lure bottle.
ok let me say this lets take pictures of large catches .what did that show me
was the lure and bait good maybe (could have blind sets) was the locations on key yes did that tell me how many set he used no did that tell me the type of sets no was it a one,two or three day split line no
now what that tells me is he put in a lot of work building that system and by that hard work it paid off.i do give lure credit but there is no magic in a bottle.the only magic there is from hard work
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Post by dtraper on Jun 9, 2011 19:48:45 GMT -5
Dont want to pee anyone off- But I have spent some money over the years on lures and bait that wasnt worth the time to put it in the bottle-good lures and bait put up by people that know what there doing is worth every penny spent,it might cost a little more but in the long run you are way ahead-get what you pay for-same with traps buy junk and the numbers go down.been following this post and had to say it.
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Post by Law Dog on Jun 9, 2011 21:18:02 GMT -5
Not a lure maker myself just know most lures work some and some lures work a lot better! I like to try a new lure every year but always have my standbyes in my tote if I start to worry!!! Just talking for fox and yotes. I use bait or blind sets on the rest!!!! Beaver lure I only use one a buddy makes works were ever I go!!!
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Post by steve56 on Jun 9, 2011 22:28:06 GMT -5
i look at it this way, hard work and location is one thing what lure or bait you use is another thing altogether
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 9, 2011 22:31:34 GMT -5
i agree with you both but one question here . when make a set is it made right or a sloppy set? did you take the time to scout'''
my point is your magic came from your work you did .now lure helped but with out putting in the work the lure is worth less .can a trap set it's self ,can the lure make a catch with out a trap,can the trap locate a location ,now a lure can help when you are off a little on location but no lure will pull a animal very far off thier travel route.
if there was magic in a lure it want matter about ,tracks,locations,weather or temps but all of these affect the lure you use.
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Post by Law Dog on Jun 9, 2011 22:42:06 GMT -5
Its like having a good truck motor and until you have a body, tires and fuel it ani't going to work for a hill of beans. You won't get nowere until the "driver" gets its all together and makes it work right! Each on its own is of little use all put together and it works!!!
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Post by backwoodsman on Jun 9, 2011 23:45:51 GMT -5
200 greys, 24 traps in 90 days. Yeah I could see it happening, Could I do it? No. In a high population area with new areas scouted and out and ready, yes someone could. 4 or 5 days or whatever with no catch in a certain set then it gets moved yes it could happen. 90x24=2160 oppurtunities. 2160 oppurtunities and 200 catchs is right around 10.1 percent. that roughly 2.1 or so catchs every day of greys out of 24 traps. During the fur boom there was years I only ran 60 traps on average due to fur buying/lure making/supply business. 20%-30% across the board was common with alot higher ratios too in good weather/new ground. It wouldnt be easy but with all the stars in alignment, a conservative in the White House and hell not quite froze over I could believe it. Grey arent really smart if you have a decent population. Problem we found was their foot was so much more fragile then a yote or even a red that the "normal traps" for reds and yotes were too much. The traditional areas here for greys arent where you would have set for reds or yotes 2 decades ago. So for greys you would have had to target them, coons, possums and skunks here to have traps working in their area then a bait or lure that appealed to them. I would be more skeptical of 24 traps taking 200 reds in 90 days. We took 68 reds one year(fur boom too about $60ea tops) with a season average of 40 traps in dedicated good canine sets in a little over 3 weeks and I thought we were very good (younger, dumber days).
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Post by backwoodsman on Jun 9, 2011 23:49:02 GMT -5
My mistake I misread that>>> 300? wow, doable but add another 50% to my figures. Still a catch ratio around 15% just figuring in my head? Everything would still have to be about just right.
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Post by minifoxer on Jun 11, 2011 11:17:51 GMT -5
i agree with you both but one question here . when make a set is it made right or a sloppy set? did you take the time to scout''' my point is your magic came from your work you did .now lure helped but with out putting in the work the lure is worth less .can a trap set it's self ,can the lure make a catch with out a trap,can the trap locate a location ,now a lure can help when you are off a little on location but no lure will pull a animal very far off thier travel route. if there was magic in a lure it want matter about ,tracks,locations,weather or temps but all of these affect the lure you use. X100!
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Post by yotkillerbill on Jun 11, 2011 17:52:18 GMT -5
my 2 sents lure playes about 2% of the game/ if your not on location and did your scouting may as well leve the traps in the shed there is no lure or trap out there that is going to help you out
bill
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Post by milkie62 on Jun 12, 2011 22:38:55 GMT -5
Saying lure is not magic is like saying there is no Santa Claus.Are you trying to say that when I was a kid all those bottles of Tingley's Black Magic mink lure I bought was not the real deal ? LOL
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 12, 2011 23:10:12 GMT -5
that what i am saying lol..the lure was real but not the magic
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