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Post by bill1958 on Jun 4, 2011 12:35:21 GMT -5
whats your thoughts on this matter ?
here i use sweet even on the water lines,now i gang set heavy and i use both but more is caught on sweet type lures then fishy odor types.
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Post by sniperbbb on Jun 4, 2011 13:01:01 GMT -5
Everything has a sweet tooth. I use both, with the sweeter stuff used more in the early season as it tends to not have as much pull as the temperatures plummet.
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Post by ray12 on Jun 4, 2011 14:52:45 GMT -5
x2 sniperbbb
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Post by dat41 on Jun 4, 2011 15:30:57 GMT -5
I think like wise too, early= sweet ; late=fish. Here is a different situation i ran into this year; after each flood ( last 2 weeks of season) thousands of shad washed on the bank; needless to say fish didn't really cut it, some left over persimmon was the right stuff. To be sure, not a far reaching smell but on a creek bank, not a lot of need for far reaching smell.
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 4, 2011 16:35:04 GMT -5
now here i steady connect using sweet type lures even in jan and feb but with our warm temps we can find some kind of fruit at almost any point or time.dat i agree if you are on location there is no need for a loud lure .your sight appeal should get the animal close so your regular lure can take over.i have also seen that pattern here dat when they shock the fish looking for tagged fish and some times a lot dies.i am researching a pattern now .during the summer in this area the coon and greys are feeding heavy on cataba warms ,now every evening they come down the trees to the ground and the next morning they goe back up the trees ,now at night the two animals are feeding heavy ,now heres what happens when the worms are gone so is the coon and the greys.i watch these locations every single day trying to learn the reason why and the pattern.now in the fall get this in this area they are interested more in possum fat then sweets or fish.this is the only area i have seen this.i had a test spot produced 14 boar coon and 2 greys last season using possum fat ,now every were else they refuse to come near it.what am seeing here is you can walk a muddy creek and see maybe 2 or 3 coon tracks and lots of grey tracks in a five mile streatch but when i use for a example foxpro cherry which is a sweet lure my catch rate is 4 coon per every grey and southern fish which both lures are producing both greys and coon.now the pattern i am seeing is scaring me a lot.because when a animal has rabies they are scared of water.i have studied rabies for a few years now from the first stage to the last and it's some thing that i always stays track of.
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Post by ewoktrapper on Jun 4, 2011 16:58:48 GMT -5
Good Reads Bill
I was a never a sweet lure user.My Idea of sweet is a castor base lure.Which castor catches everything.
I'm also not a coon trapper.I go out of my way to miss coon.On avg if I'd put 30 coon up a year thats a good season.Now with fuel going up and up I'm trapping coon to off set costs of the line.So keep this thead comming..I just never used sweet baits.
Fish catches everything also.Yotes to weasel on fish baits.There is not to much you can say bad about fish.Only thing it looses it smell in cold temps.With salted chunks,It is freeze proof all winter long.Now that being said I like some fish better than others.Oily fish like eels,bullheads,carp and trout make the best baits.Panfish and creek chubs even suckers don't have the fat content and dry out quick in my book.Oily fish seam to deteriorate much less and have a heavier skin to pin in the holes/pockets.
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 4, 2011 18:33:53 GMT -5
ewoke shad is a oily fish and makes one heck a good sweet bait if done right. first stage is to add your salt while they are fresh one cup per gal ,then stir real good and put in a warm room for three weeks,remove the clear oil and ground the shad then add 4 oz ground cheap cinamon per pint mix well and then readd the oil back, you will have both worlds sweet and fish.these has worked every were with 0 problems
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 5, 2011 0:52:00 GMT -5
you can also take them shad and add ground cinamon to them with the salt at the same time and get a fish oil that smells of cinamon that can be used as a trailing scent.the key point is to keep it shook up the first two weeks .after that just drain the oil out and you are good to goe.
now how many of you guys use a sweet lure with a fish as bait or a fishy lure with a sweet bait? the thing is with this combo they get the best of it all and that's why i steady produce coon. if a coon wants fish it's there and at any given point they wants sweet that's there.lures and baits are designed to work to gather.my point is don't use the same thing at a set if the lure is sweet add some tainted fish or even fresh but don't use a sweet lure and a sweet bait .
think on the boxing terms why do the boxer have a left and right hook because they know with the right combo they can be the best in the ring.same applys to lures and baits.you need that extra odor.i think thats why you see a lot of rejects at a set.
also i will add this as well you will be surprised just how much fur can be caught on a rub post using sweet lures.i caught a lot of grey fox on coon rub post with foxpro cherry in fact more then southern rub which is a castor base lure.i have been playing with the rub post test for 5 years now and i have yet to see a problem using sweet type lures on rub post.
wait a dang minute sweets spells food ? yes to a degree BUT with the right sweet odor it triggers a hunger AND a coursity factor in the animal and thats what you want.take canines they feed heavy on wild fruit during the summer and fall come winter there is none but you take that fruit odor in the winter it still triggers a hunger factor but at the same time they know fruits gone but they still work that set.why ? the coursity factor kicked in.
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 5, 2011 2:39:54 GMT -5
lets take fisher and marten they both loves berrys and berrys has a sweet taste.how come during the fall do you see lots of them being caught at bear bait stations long after the bait's gone and the bear is sleeping? they know that there was sweets there and even in the cold weather they still keeps coming back.why the hunger for sweets and thier coursity kicked in.
the key point is this some times a curb ball needs to be used. now in these cases there is no berrys or sweets in the colder climates in the winter but if you add that odor you can bet your last dollar they will check it out.the problem is trappers get hung up with loud lures and baits.i will bet my last dollar if a trapper used a sweet lure for marten in the winter when every one else is using loud lures you will see that the trapper with the sweet lure will walk away with the bulk of the fur.
just like foxpro cherry and beaver. 95% of trappers use castor or a plant ingredent like popular or birch oil,now if every one else uses castor and you goe in with a sweet odor guess what .you will walk a way with the bulk of the fur just like this season testers did.why ? because it got the animals coursity going and the longer you play on the coursity the more your sets will connect.
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Post by ewoktrapper on Jun 5, 2011 7:06:53 GMT -5
. Fishers and martens both got the sweet tooth as well as coon and skunks.
I used alot of Grape jelly for bait.Only thing bad about the use of jelly was you had to use it in a Cubby.If you built a Allagash lean too behind the the trap the jelly would dry out with the wind and sun.Also got washed by the rain.A local guy I sometimes trapped with in Maine like rasberry jello powder mixed in with Lanolin.Now that mixture was better weather proof , he did well on it.He was also a cubby user.I tried that Hard-Core sweet coon lure.I was attracting to many Bears with it.I stopped use'n it..
I'd always double set a location.I've caught doubles on marten,But got alot of squirrls plugging traps too.Also if the Bears are not in bed yet.They too will knock the snot of your cubbys so tie you trap to the tree and not the cubby.The cubby can be a mile away if a bear finds it.
When cold weather hit,by then I'd have a pile of beaver meat.I'd switch to beaver bait in the cubbies,Pro's choice in the cubby with the beaver and a LDC on the tree above the cubby.The LDC was just Fish greese and skunk.Held up all winter.I even reset same location the next year and the skunk junk was still there LOL...
Fisher can been Picky early season.On heavy beech nut years,they rather stay on the high ridges and eat beech nuts.The males more so than the Females for some reason.Those years you just got to go chase them.The beech nut cycle was every 3 years up northern maine.That was alway the best location for fishers anyways.Where a ridge comes down and hits the bottom(swamp}
When I baited bears for a Guide.We ran about 60 barrels/locations.We Mixed oats with pie filling.The filling we would get in the 55 gal drums. We ran Cherry ,blue berry,Black berry apple and carmale mostly.We would stick the oats and filling into a cement mixer and mix it thick.That was the bait he used on Bears.He got away from the meat baits cause of smell and some costumers didn't like it.At the bait station There was always sticky Fisher,marten and coon tracks all over the Barrels.I saw that and thats when I started setting the same locations for Fishers.I couldn't beleave that the local trappers didn't take advantage of this.I left a few Local boys shake'n ther heads wondering how a new guy in the area was putting up good numbers on Big 4xl coons and Fishers...
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 5, 2011 12:41:41 GMT -5
ewok very good post that's what i was saying.many trappers get in a rut by using the same lure or bait that others use but when you change the lures and bait your threw a coursity curb ball and that's what puts you one step a head of the rest of the trappers and that always puts more fur in the shed.
every year trappers ask me what my secret is on my catches and it's as simple as the nose on your face i relye more on coursity then any other thing.
ever wounder why another canine checks out another canines odor ? it's a coursity factor,same with different animals odor.as long as you play with thier coursity you can't goe wroung
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Post by walkercoonhunter on Jun 5, 2011 20:33:56 GMT -5
i have found that a gallon of vege oil with 2 cans of sardines added and about a half cup of grape or strawberry cool aid mix all mixed together and let set 2-3 weeks before season in a cool dark place will catch the heck out of coons and grey fox....this is a short term bait/lure/trailing scent because the sardines will start to rot in the early warmer weather over the long term....you could also add your cinnamon or anise or vanilla extracts to this if you wish.....
rasberry and mullberry is also another great scent for coon lures....
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Post by backwoodsman on Jun 5, 2011 23:28:12 GMT -5
I we're chasing coon and rats then we use sweet and non sweet(not always fishy). If we're after mink too or there seems to be quite a few we'll use a mix also but lean toward mink lure or non sweet coon lure mixed in. More scents the merrier. We humans like a buffet so...
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Post by lyonch on Jun 7, 2011 11:25:42 GMT -5
In central MN we can reach the cold before the season even opens sometimes. When i trap land, i use sweet, when i trap water i stick more with fish. The coon in my area, seem to pass up all the sweets you have in front of them, just to get to the fish. As the cold season nears, our coon will den up just like a bear. They need a lot of fat stored up for this hibernation period in case it is a long cold winter. A coon IMO will go about this the same way a bear does. The more fatty/oily things they eat, the more weight/fat they put on. The way that i make my fish paste base louder, is by mixing in fish meal and shellfish oil. When it gets cold i add some glycol to keep it from freezing. At every location, i will add a sweeter smelling lure to one of the sets to catch that random coon that is not interested in the fish smell. I have seen on several occassions that they pass the sweet to get to the fish. Everything i said about fish being superior to sweet in my area, comes from trapping the water. When on land i have about a 50/50 mix of sweet smelling sets, and fish smelling sets.
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 8, 2011 2:52:16 GMT -5
the fastest way to put on fat is sugar just ask my wife lmao. she will tell you flat out don't eat sweets.since the doctor but her on a fish diet she lost 45 lbs in 6 months. so brother don't let her see this post or we both are bait lol
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Post by lyonch on Jun 8, 2011 12:44:30 GMT -5
Too bad they can't go hibernate and lose it all like the coon and bear do LOL.
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Post by sshoesmd on Jun 9, 2011 16:11:30 GMT -5
Fish verses sweet!!! hmmmm Well,Being I am from WI.am in the farm belt----fish is not a good Idea unless you want the farmers cats.In this case I will always go sweet lure or bait.BUT,if I"m up in the northwoods, Than I will put smoked fish in the coni Boxes and fish at the pockets and drowners along streams but if I"m gang setting on land up north than its half and half dirtholes with also a set post or flatset.Fish is a great attractant but it has its place---there is nothing worse than nailing the farmers cat in a 160.
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 11, 2011 3:39:19 GMT -5
very good tip sshoesmd
the thing with sweet over fish you cut back on a lot of pet catches and like you said saves a lot of problems for the trapper.in no way am i saying don't use fish but to let the beginners to focus on sweet type odors when there is pets around and use as a precaution to prevent this.each lure is used for different reasons and the thing is most forget that early fall and some times works better then fish or loud lures.most meat meat eating animals loves sweets to a point and that includes mink .during test mink as worked sets that was lures with both banana oil or cherry oil.
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 11, 2011 3:44:40 GMT -5
bb i agree to a point but i know of trappers that steady caught fur with sweet lures all season in pa and other colder states.the key point is proper locations . the lure formation and the carrier used in that formation is the factor along with weather conditions.
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Post by dtraper on Jun 11, 2011 7:10:33 GMT -5
Liked your post on shad put up Bill,think I might try it.That said I noticed when trapping coon-dry land sets-if I start useing a fish based lure/bait I catch a lot more grinners
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 11, 2011 10:06:00 GMT -5
dtrapper nothing cuts back them nasty critters lol BUT i have learned during test that sweets and lure place can decrease your possum catches to a degree
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Post by dtraper on Jun 11, 2011 11:05:20 GMT -5
2x
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Post by dieselweasel on Jun 11, 2011 11:38:28 GMT -5
What about a sweet lure made by mixing castor, grape jam, and peanut butter together?
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Post by bill1958 on Jun 11, 2011 12:26:49 GMT -5
What about a sweet lure made by mixing castor, grape jam, and peanut butter together? i can't comment on that but all three ingredents will work but i have never worked with that type of fomula. how ever peanut butter will seperate as the oil will come to the top after a while but add the grape jam and the castor it might prevent the oil from coming to the top but on the other hand is all you would need to mix once a day.all i can say is give it a test to see.
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Post by dieselweasel on Jun 11, 2011 12:40:48 GMT -5
I'll try it and post on the results.
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